Gender Diversity: Interview with Hans Hellendoorn

DEWIS is talking with Professor Hans Hellendoorn about women in science and equalopportunities at TU Delft. Hellendoorn is a professor of Control Theory and has been thehead of the Cognitive Robotics Department at the Faculty of Mechanical Engineering sinceApril 2018. He has also held the position of Pro Vice Rector Joint Education Affairs sinceFebruary 2021 and is acting as a replacement for the position of Vice President Educationsince 1 October 2024. In this interview, we discuss his ideas, priorities and aspirations forcreating gender-diverse and inclusive work environments.

DEWIS has seen the departure of a lot of female talent over the past year. This included anumber of female professors and many talented associate professors who got seniorpositions more quickly elsewhere. Why do you think this is?

Hans: "Yes, I’ve noticed that too. It’s partly because technical universities are fishing fromthe same pond nationally and internationally. I conducted exit interviews with several womenwho said that they were not dissatisfied with Delft. They simply received attractive offerselsewhere, often from their home countries, which were likely motivational factors. It'simportant to continually reflect on why staff leave and to keep looking critically at ourselves."

In autumn 2024, the Netherlands Organization for Scientific Research (NWO) will start a pilotin the Talent Programme that is expected to lead to more allocations of Vidi grants towomen. What’s your opinion on the developments in NWO's Talent Programme?

Hans: "That’s undoubtedly a very good thing. If we want to grow the number of women inacademia and science, we need to temporarily introduce a preferential policy. And I can seethe impact of this. According to the sector plans, we had to hire a certain percentage ofwomen, which led to more women in the department. This initiated a culture change.Traditional thinking about academic careers has changed. This traditional thinking meant thatwomen, and some men, were given fewer opportunities due to stereotypical views aboutacademic roles and unconscious biases in hiring and promotion policies. We havedemonstrated the value of going about this in a different way."

How did you become aware of your biases? Have you ever had 'implicit bias' training?

Hans: "Although I haven’t had specific training on that, I have participated in workshopswithin the department. These were quite useful because I learned more about myself and myprejudices."Some people still say: "I just want to hire the best people for the job and don't look at colouror gender as part of the process."

What would you say to those people?

Hans: "I’ve noticed that professors tend to choose staff or PhD candidates who are similar tothemselves. We like to think that we are hiring the best candidate, but they’re often a copy of ourselves. I consciously encourage them to hire people who bring something new or differentto the table. Diversity enriches the team and we’re better for it."

What can the university do to highlight female talent at the university so that they havebetter opportunities to grow and flourish in their academic careers?

Hans: "The career development committees assess candidates but apply a lot of implicitrules. While this has certain advantages, such as not only looking at H-indexes, it also bringsrisks. These implicit rules leave too much to the random composition of the committee andresult in one-sided assessments. By making the benchmarks and criteria more explicit, wecan include all the different aspects in the assessment."

TU/Eindhoven's Irene Curie Fellowship programme is bearing fruit, as discussed in the article TU Eindhoven trekt na radicaal beleid spectaculair meer vrouwelijke medewerkers aan | de Volkskrant | deVolkskrant (TU Eindhoven attracts huge increase in female staff after radical policy).Wouldn't something like this also be a good idea for us?

Hans: "I believe it would. If you want to increase the number of women in academicpositions, you have to put energy and effort into incentive policies. We tried it for yearswithout such measures and it had little effect. So it would seem that it is necessary."

What would you suggest to promote the advancement of women at TU Delft?I strongly advocate the hiring of women. More women joining the TU Delft team means morewomen being able to advance in their careers. However, I take a rather cautious approach topromoting advancement because it can quickly raise eyebrows. Importantly, women shouldbe given the same opportunities as men when it comes to places on career developmentcommittees.Combining family and an academic career is still often seen as a source of a lot of stress. Doyou think enough is being done to change this perception?

Hans: "I completely understand that point. Young women have to deal with a lot ofchallenges, including project-related issues that arise during their maternity leave, inadequatebreastfeeding areas and overcrowded childcare facilities. Psychological complaints, such ashaving a colicky baby, can also weigh heavily. Instead of offering direct solutions, we shouldorganise more listening sessions with young parents to discuss their experiences and look forsolutions together. Unfortunately, maternity leave is often seen as a problem instead of acause for celebration."

Have you noticed changes within the university over the years when it comes to diversity andinclusion? What exactly has changed? How did that go?

Hans: "It’s a lot different now compared to when I did my PhD in Computer Science. Backthen it was a predominantly male community with women mainly in supporting roles. It is alot more diverse now and there is a far greater understanding of the need for increaseddiversity."

What is your vision of the ideal inclusive university of the future?

HH: We still take too narrow a view of the career path of an excellent academic and oftenplace too much emphasis on traditional things such as the number of publications, grants andconference speeches. These are obviously important, but we must also learn to look at it from a broader perspective because there's more than one way to be an excellent academic.I hope we remain open to and create more space for these diverse paths and develop newforms of recognition and appreciation.

Does your ideal inclusive university also need new leadership?

Hans: "Yes, I think so. We can learn a lot from other universities, both nationally andinternationally, in terms of leadership and regarding the process of choosing administrators.We don't have to adopt everything but we can certainly get some valuable insights. Mybiggest wish is for all of us to take staff issues seriously and not trivialise them."

Society also demands a new kind of engineer - one who can help solve complex social issues.What additional skills are important for the engineers of the future?

Hans: "Engineers used to provide solutions within our society, often with a 'here is thesolution to your problem' mentality. Modern society is more empowered and outspoken andpeople demand that engineers listen more to their needs. So our new engineers must notonly provide solutions but also be more attuned to what people really want, which requires adifferent approach to research and education. This will be more effective if our teams includea good balance of men and women and reflects the actual makeup of society as a whole."

What would you say to women who are unsure whether an academic career is for them?

Hans: "If you enjoy academia, science and research, we invite you to join us. Strengthen andlend your voice to our team and we’ll work together to change the culture. These changesare already underway and will continue gradually. Several women have already told me thatthis is a good place to work, so join us and see it for yourself."

What advice would you give to women who encounter resistance in advancing to seniorpositions?

Hans: "If something doesn’t seem right or fair, you need to discuss it with a colleague,manager or confidential adviser. You can also visit me if necessary. Patience is importantbecause careers tend to develop slowly, mostly over a period of about 40 years. Butinjustices need to be addressed. We are now in a situation where that is not just possible, it’sactively encouraged."

When do you foresee DEWIS no longer being needed?

Hans: "DEWIS has facilitated a much greater understanding of the barriers women face.Cross-faculty organisations where people meet are important and must continue. We shouldstop DEWIS only when nobody comes to those meetings anymore."

Questions or comments can be sent to dewis@tudelft.nl